BryanThomasS: Upcoming on #sffwrtcht 9/05 @KDMcEntire 9/12 @KittyNorville1 9/19 @author_sullivan 9/26 @ClaireAshgrove 10/03 @LarryCorreia10/10 @cischafer (Thu Aug 30 00:51:38 +0000 2012)
sffwrtcht: Welcome To Science Fiction and Fantasy Writer’s Chat #sffwrtcht a weekly chat where we interview authors, editors etc abt #scifi & #fantasy (Thu Aug 30 01:00:55 +0000 2012)sffwrtcht: Tonight, author, editor, and outliner extraordinaire @robynmcintyre is going to lead us in a discussion of outlining #sffwrtcht #darkside (Thu Aug 30 01:01:28 +0000 2012)sffwrtcht: Be warned. Resistence is futile and you wouldn’t like her when she’s angry. @robynmcintyre Thanks for joining us! #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:01:51 +0000 2012)
robynmcintyre: Welcome to the dark side of writing. Bwahahaha Now I have you in me power! #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:02:01 +0000 2012)
Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre Do you have cookies? I heard the dark side has cookies. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:02:19 +0000 2012)
shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre I thought outlining was the light side? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:02:25 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @Jaleta_Clegg 3-5 sentences and a photo or I shall add a photo of my own #evil laugh# #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:02:52 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Let me start off by saying I write urban fantasy & was a tech editor/software proj. mgr. for 20 years – that’s why outlining #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:02:57 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @Jaleta_Clegg I DO have cookies – and I’m keeping them. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:03:39 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: As @BryanThomasS pointed out in a post in which he forgot his own hashtag, I also hang on #litchat and #scifichat #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:04:30 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @robynmcintyre Told ya I was remaining silent damn it #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:04:47 +0000 2012)
talekyn: #sffwrtcht @BryanThomasS We still need to do a League of Extraordinary Panters t-shirt. (Thu Aug 30 01:05:02 +0000 2012)
chippermuse: @robynmcintyre Keeping the cookies? That IS the dark side! #sffwrtcht @Jaleta_Clegg (Thu Aug 30 01:05:33 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: So – I like to outline. Why? Because I have a bad memory and details would overwhelm me otherwise #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:05:46 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre Does the structure of your job influenced the way you write? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:06:15 +0000 2012)
john_zeleznik: How specific is an outline? I read about writers with 70 page outlines and my head implodes. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:06:40 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Yes, indeed. Because my work, I write from beginning to end, rather than skipping about. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:06:57 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @chippermuse She’s trying to prove how evil she is by not sharing. Darth Vader would share, if you used a Jedi mind trick on him #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:07:01 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @john_zeleznik That’s where I go to individual preferences. For example, I write separate outlines for each chapter, but… #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:07:57 +0000 2012)
kodermike: @robynmcintyre I find I get frustrated 1/2 way through outlining & just want to get started writing. How do you move past that? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:08:08 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @john_zeleznik I’m with you there. Too specific, and I don’t feel like writing the actual story anymore. Balance? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:08:10 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: I never use letters or numbers – too messy. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:08:13 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre so you could have 30 outlines for a book? O.o #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:08:38 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @Jaleta_Clegg I’m not sure Darth could eat the cookies. Darn breathing mask. Guess he has to share. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:08:59 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @kodermike Don’t outline the whole thing – outline to where you’re comfortable & see where it takes you, then revise & cont, #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:09:16 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @chippermuse @john_zeleznik I write first 3-5 chapters, then a 2-3 page outline. I write linearly, too, but don’t need details. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:09:27 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 I COULD – but I don’t write them at the same time. I start with a general outline of how I want the arc to work #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:09:56 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @chippermuse Darth would crumble them onto the floor then stomp on them, just to prove his evilness. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:10:06 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Then I get more specific with each chapter. Example – Ch1-5, expose the secret. Ch1, introduce chars #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:10:41 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @Jaleta_Clegg Touche! I love it. #poorunsharingDarth #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:11:33 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre so how long does it take for you to outline? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:12:19 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: When I finish a chapter, I write a summary in my outline and bullet list particular items I need to remember like clues #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:12:21 +0000 2012)john_zeleznik: I have different styles too. For my SEASONS series I did a rough outline of themed sections, then POVs. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:12:44 +0000 2012)john_zeleznik: Then I get specific to what happens in those individual chapters. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:13:05 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 1st outline never takes long, bc I don’t know many details. Succ. revisions are longer as I add info #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:13:49 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: RT @robynmcintyre: When I finish a chapter, I write a summary in my outline and bullet list particular items I need to remember #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:13:55 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre I should do that. It might help. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:14:13 +0000 2012)
NineTiger: I am a pantser. I can see real value in having an outline, especially when tavkling a sequel #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:14:21 +0000 2012)
linnetwoods: RT @robynmcintyre: So – I like to outline. Why? Because I have a bad memory and details would overwhelm me otherwise #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:14:23 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: If you’re very visual, you can use a flow chart as an outline #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:14:56 +0000 2012)kodermike: I think I’ve always been trapped in the paradigm of grade school, roman numeral outlines – stifling, constrictive. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:15:40 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Chapter summaries help keep you oriented so you don’t have to read thru everything each time #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:15:46 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre what kind of software do you use to write? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:16:23 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @kodermike Yeah; throw those away. An outline should be flexible – it WILL change. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:16:33 +0000 2012)kodermike: @PrinceJvstin I almost “lack of imagination,” then realized how bad THAT would be 
#sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:16:51 +0000 2012)
kathleea: @john_zeleznik I started doing storyboards using PowerPoint. Bullet points for each scene, characters, action. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:17:02 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 MS Word bc I used it in my work as an editor and project manager. Also keep excel files for my character bios #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:17:35 +0000 2012)john_zeleznik: @kathleea My last SEASONS book, I’m seriously thinking about using index cards since it’s going to be so huge. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:17:57 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Lately, though, I’ve been keeping a FileMaker Pro db with char bios #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:18:19 +0000 2012)kodermike: @PrinceJvstin But yes, largely habit. #sffwrtcht (this time I didn’t leave out key words, like “said”!) (Thu Aug 30 01:18:23 +0000 2012)chippermuse: I’ve met another writer who uses Powerpoint for outline. He puts pictures, etc, in too. @kathleea @john_zeleznik #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:18:43 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre have you tried scrivener or liquid story binder? each chapter can be a file complete with summary. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:18:43 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @john_zeleznik Index cards are nice; you can post them on a board, move them around #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:19:04 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Yes, I have. Just used to Word. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:19:36 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @kodermike All of us who are editors/proofers added it in mentally for you. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:19:46 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @chippermuse That’s a cool idea. I like it #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:19:59 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre so where does your outline start? Plot, character ? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:20:14 +0000 2012)
TonyNoland: RT @robynmcintyre: Chapter summaries help keep you oriented so you dont have to read thru everything each time #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:20:17 +0000 2012)kodermike: @robynmcintyre You almost inspired me to take off my pants. Almost. Whew! #sffwrtcht #pantster (i will now be banned for context) (Thu Aug 30 01:20:34 +0000 2012)john_zeleznik: I did a narrative outline of a SEASONS prequel of the events leading up to the events of SEASONS. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:20:44 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Mine always start as a paragraph that is a summary of the book. Then I go to plot points #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:21:20 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @robynmcintyre I found index cards useful for my travel memoir, but I had a hard time reading what I wrote down #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:21:23 +0000 2012)talekyn: @RobynMcIntyre I’m a Pantser but I’ve built a Series Bible for my science fiction stuff. Not quite an outline for each book, tho. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:21:56 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @NineTiger LOL. I like a recording device or using the movie feature on my camera, with voice over #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:22:23 +0000 2012)TonyNoland: I use yWriter. Similar to Scrivener – allows character bios & background info, scene switching & outlining to go with the prose. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:23:00 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @talekyn If it works for you, it’s enough. I don’t believe there’s only 1 way to outline or req degree of drill-down #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:23:11 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @robynmcintyre I think because I am used to short story, doing an outline feels unnatural for me #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:23:55 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @robynmcintyre @NineTiger I like the idea of using voice recorder. Lots of options for that on computer and smartphones. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:23:56 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: so what happens when you are in the middle portion of the story and you get a great idea, but have to add it to the beginning #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:24:02 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Outlining is only a method for organizing the material – your platform for the organization, degree of detail is up to you #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:24:26 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre do you go back to the outlinine and find where it needs to go or just make notes? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:24:49 +0000 2012)kodermike: RT @robynmcintyre: Outlining is only a method for organizing the material – your platform for the organization, degree of detail is up t … (Thu Aug 30 01:25:13 +0000 2012)john_zeleznik: I’m a post it guy too. Think of things to add, write it on a post it and add it later. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:25:22 +0000 2012)TonyNoland: I’ve heard of people using mind mapping software for outlining and structuring a book, but it didn’t work for me. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:25:27 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre I’m horribly slow at learning new software, etc, so a lot of what I do is in 3-ring binders or regular word docs. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:25:28 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 What will work for you? For me, it wld require a rewrite of the outline to see how the change ripples thru #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:25:38 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @NineTiger I know quite a few short story writers who organize their stories using outlines. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:25:55 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: I outline shorts in 3 acts and plot the story on a graph, where the middle is the MC’s worst nightmare #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:26:45 +0000 2012)kodermike: @robynmcintyre Do you do any writing before the first full outline is done? (let’s say, post rough sketch) #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:26:51 +0000 2012)kathleea: @TonyNoland I tried it too and couldn’t make it work either although I like the concept. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:27:47 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @kodermike I play w/ chars in sketches to get a sense of their personalities; I like my chars to be fully formed frm beginning #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:28:00 +0000 2012)TonyNoland: @kathleea I think your preferred tool derives in large part from how visual you are. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:28:33 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @kathleea I find mind mapping a good way to get writing started, but too messy to create outlines from #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:28:40 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @kathleea @TonyNoland I’ve had fun with mind mapping for ideas–story structure not so much #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:28:47 +0000 2012)
PrinceJvstin: @shadowflame1974 @kathleea @TonyNoland so good for idea collection but not a writing device for words on paper, then? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:29:39 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @robynmcintyre Now that is really alien for me (pun not intended) #sffwrtcht(Thu Aug 30 01:29:57 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre A lot of writers have told me they outline novels, but they don’t outline shorts. interesting change in process #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:29:57 +0000 2012)TonyNoland: @shadowflame1974 @kathleea I’ve not had much success in mapping my mind. The diagrams get too messy to be useful. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:30:18 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @PrinceJvstin mind mapping can get you started. If you ask a question, then brainstorm around it, the words often start to flow #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:30:40 +0000 2012)talekyn: @NineTiger @shadowflame1974 I don’t outline my shorts any more than I outline my novels. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:31:03 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @talekyn I think mst writers take for granted a short will be easier. It isn’t; it’s harder bc all is compressed #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:31:22 +0000 2012)TonyNoland: @PrinceJvstin It can be, although for me, a paper notepad or MS Word would work as well. @shadowflame1974 @kathleea #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:31:25 +0000 2012)chippermuse: I teach mind mapping to college freshmen as brainstorming technique. It can be used as rough outline. Usu not too detailed. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:31:33 +0000 2012)talekyn: @TonyNoland @shadowflame1974 @kathleea I’d need multiple maps. Sorta like Star Trek’s 3-D Chess. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:31:46 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @talekyn maybe larger sheets of paper? lol #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:32:12 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre Shorts take less time to write, but are harder for me. I don’t need to outline, I can keep that much in my head #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:32:19 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @robynmcintyre True. Fattenung a novel is hard for me to do. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:32:29 +0000 2012)talekyn: @shadowflame1974 One map for each personality, haha. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:32:58 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre How detailed are your outlines? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:33:00 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @Jaleta_Clegg I like to outline shorts to see the flow – identify potential rocks in the river #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:33:02 +0000 2012)TonyNoland: Freemind is the software I tried. http://t.co/olmMg8G5 Free, so easy to try out. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:33:14 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 My outlines for ea chapter are a linear list of what happens & highlights what affects chars or other chapters. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:34:31 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: My training is to have ea. sentence flow into next, ea para into next, ea chapter into next. I outline to look for interruptions #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:35:56 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Usually each list item is 1 line #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:36:46 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre ohhh interesting. so your outline is more for how the story flows? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:36:47 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Always, for me. It’s always about the flow #sffwrtcht(Thu Aug 30 01:37:08 +0000 2012)NineTiger: I wonder if pantsers have to edit more of the finished piece than outliners? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:37:16 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre That’s logical. I just never got in the habit. I even refused to outline essays in hs unless it would lose points. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:37:33 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @NineTiger I would say at first yes- but later not so much #sffwrtcht(Thu Aug 30 01:38:02 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre what other things besides flow doyou look for in the outline? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:38:34 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Details that will ripple thru. Doyle cldn’t remember Watson’s wife’s name so she had two or three #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:39:38 +0000 2012)talekyn: @NineTiger I don’t think outlining necessarily means the written product is any better or worse than non-outlined work. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:39:49 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @NineTiger I think the bigger issue with pantsing is you can get stuck in middle with no way forward. I’ve had that happen. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:40:02 +0000 2012)kathleea: I’m usually a panster but not for world building. My YA fantasy LORE OF FEI I had to storyboard/plot out. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:40:18 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @talekyn For me, characters & their problems just Bamf into being, and the story becomes obvious. Nonfiction is different #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:40:27 +0000 2012)talekyn: @NineTiger But then again, I edit as I go along (sometimes too much so; I’m not good at the “just write & edit later” concept). #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:40:31 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @chippermuse Definitely where an overall outline will help. You’ll see where you got off track #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:40:36 +0000 2012)
whoops! #sffwrtcht (kodermike: @talekyn I think the theory is then you don’t have to go back and “fix” as much. unproven by me. @NineTiger #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:41:14 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre so how long does it typically take for you to outline a novel? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:41:20 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @talekyn I do both. Bc of tech bkgrnd, I can’t let a chapter go until I’m satisfied it ‘fits’ with its predecessors #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:41:32 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @chippermuse Then, I go for a walk and see the story play out in my mind’d eye #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:41:33 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre @shadowflame1974 The Watson’s Wife example is classic. That’s why I have my series bible. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:41:45 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 My 1st outline is just a diving board; I update, rewrite outline through the whole novel, so 1st can tk minutes #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:42:26 +0000 2012)kathleea: @talekyn @ninetiger I had trouble with that at first now I ignore the inner editor and just write the story.#sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:42:46 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: For me, writing a novel is putting a puzzle together. Outlining is like putting the edges & corners down #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:43:15 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre you outline is just as alive as the writing is then? evolving as the story goes. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:43:20 +0000 2012)chippermuse: RT @robynmcintyre: For me, writing a novel is putting a puzzle together. Outlining is like putting the edges & corners down #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:43:57 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Absolutely. It lives and breathes separately from the novel, but inextricable like identical twins #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:44:08 +0000 2012)talekyn: @kodermike @NineTiger yeah, I’ve heard that theory. Probably fewer glaring plot holes with an outline, I’d guess. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:44:34 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @robynmcintyre Good point. I usually have the beginning and the end, and just need the gooey middle #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:44:45 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre so what happens to the outline when you finish the story? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:45:26 +0000 2012)talekyn: @kathleea @ninetiger I’ve tried to silence the inner editor, and the only time it even remotely works is during NaNoWriMo. haha #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:45:33 +0000 2012)
BooksFreak101: RT @kathleea: I’m usually a panster but not for world building. My YA fantasy LORE OF FEI I had to storyboard/plot out. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:45:49 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: With the outline living and flexible, I can adjust to go where the story/chars take me. Nothing hard/fast except start/finish #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:46:02 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre That might be the best analogy I’ve heard. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:46:04 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @talekyn The IE is most helpful at the editing stage, not so much the creative stage #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:46:54 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 I review it to see the diffs betwn where I thought things wld go & where they went. Helps me know my process #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:46:57 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre do you use it any in the editing process? #sffwrtcht(Thu Aug 30 01:47:27 +0000 2012)kathleea: @talekyn @ninetiger That’s where I learned how to gag the editor! Make each book a NaNo book!#sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:47:32 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 No. By the time I finish the novel, I’m satisfied w/ the flow and I’m editing for improvement #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:48:16 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @kathleea My novels are NaNo, but my travel memoir was done straight over one summer #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:49:25 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: I tried NaNo, but I’m incapable of leaving rough writing alone (it’s the editor in me, I guess) #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:51:00 +0000 2012)kodermike: I hate #sffwrtcht. I always need to head to bed after it ends, but usually the talk makes me want to brew some coffee and write all night. (Thu Aug 30 01:51:21 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre You are selling me on your outlining #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:51:24 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @kodermike lol well I think that is a compliment #sffwrtcht #sameherethough (Thu Aug 30 01:51:53 +0000 2012)kathleea: RT @kodermike: I hate #sffwrtcht. I always need to head to bed after it ends, but usually the talk makes me want to brew some coffee and … (Thu Aug 30 01:52:30 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre how many stories have you outlined? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:53:04 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 In my head I have about 100 rough outlines at the moment and I’m working on 8 ‘on paper’ #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:53:52 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre wow that is a lot to keep track of! #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:54:21 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Outline also helps me w/ idea selection. If I have a good idea, but can’t outline anything worthwile, I don’t write it #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:54:44 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre hmmmm sounds like they have to stew for a bit before you can use them. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:55:25 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @robynmcintyre Won’t know how good sm of the head ones are until I start on paper. Sm are ideas I’ve had for decades #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:55:32 +0000 2012)kathleea: @kodermike Yeah, if only we didn’t have day jobs. I’m with you on the brewing coffee/writing all night.#sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:55:36 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @shadowflame1974 Indeed; I’ve had conflicts resolved by time passage, and had to abandon the story #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:56:11 +0000 2012)kodermike: @kathleea I wonder if I moved west to a new timezone if that would help…? #sffwrtcht #crazyreasonstomoveortherightones? (Thu Aug 30 01:56:34 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @robynmcintyre Brilliant! I’ve had lots of ideas that I prob would have rejected if I’d outlined first. Smart approach. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:56:52 +0000 2012)NineTiger: @robynmcintyre I leave my NaNo output alone for at least 2 months before editing any of it seriously #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:56:53 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @NineTiger Oh yeah; I do the same w/ my stuff #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:57:22 +0000 2012)sffwrtcht: Next week on #sffwrtcht #ya #uf author @kdmcentire of @Pyr_Books talks about REAPER, LIGHTBRINGER #writing and more. Join us Wed at 9pm EDT (Thu Aug 30 01:57:42 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: Next week on #sffwrtcht #ya #uf author @kdmcentire of @Pyr_Books talks about REAPER, LIGHTBRINGER #writing and more. Join us Wed at 9pm EDT (Thu Aug 30 01:57:43 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @chippermuse Yeah, if you can’t see where it’s going, maybe it isn’t going anywhere #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 01:58:04 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: RT @sffwrtcht: Next week on #sffwrtcht #ya #uf author @kdmcentire of @Pyr_Books talks about REAPER, LIGHTBRINGER #writing and more. Join … (Thu Aug 30 01:58:45 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: Okay folks anymore questions #sffwrtcht #forgotTheDarnTab (Thu Aug 30 01:59:26 +0000 2012)kodermike: @robynmcintyre Thanks for helping taking some of the angst, barbs, thorns, and pointy parts off of outlines tonight #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:00:31 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @robynmcintyre Thank you so much for explaining your outlining process with us tonight #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:00:39 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @kodermike You are welcome. I hope the Pantsers found some value in the idea of outlining as a fluid structure #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:01:03 +0000 2012)shadowflame1974: @kodermike @robynmcintyre yes indeed, Outlines aren’t so scary any more. 
#sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:01:03 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre You and everyone else here have given me a lot of great ideas about outlining tonight. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:01:12 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @Jaleta_Clegg Great – I’ll be interested to see what you make of them #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:01:47 +0000 2012)chippermuse: This was a super discussion of outlining. Great insights & pointers. Thanks, @robynmcintyre @shadowflame1974 & all. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:02:04 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: Thanks, everyone for having me. Anyone got any books or other events they’d like to plug? #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:02:43 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre I tried totally pantsing my nano this month. It’s a scary mess. Won’t do that again. I’ve got another project… #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:02:49 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre Thanks for running this discussion. Sorry I disappeared — had to investigate an odd noise in the basement. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:03:17 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @NineTiger Welcome, Marianne. Thanks for being here. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:03:24 +0000 2012)kodermike: @talekyn Cthulhu weird, or racoon crawled in the boiler weird? #sffwrtcht(Thu Aug 30 02:04:01 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre Shameless promo time? My 2nd book is out – Priestess of the Eggstone http://t.co/IpEUSnJz #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:04:05 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: CopperCon is happening in Phoenix this weekend. If you’re in AZ, it might be fun #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:04:19 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: RT @Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre Shameless promo time? My 2nd book is out – Priestess of the Eggstone http://t.co/IpEUSnJz #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:04:25 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @talekyn The odd noises in my basement are the electrician finishing up the kitchen wiring. Happy noise. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:05:00 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: If anyone besides @Wyld_Dandelyon is going to @chicon_7 from #sffwrtcht regulars, please find us. #scifi #fantasy Thanks, Robyn!!!!! (Thu Aug 30 02:05:18 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @Jaleta_Clegg Nice. May you never trip another circuit #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:05:26 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre I’m just happy to finally have the kitchen I always wanted. We’re paying for it, though. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:05:47 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @BryanThomasS Thanks for asking me, Bryan. It was very fun. #sffwrtcht(Thu Aug 30 02:05:59 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @BryanThomasS Wish I were at #chicon_7, but life won’t allow it this year. #sffwrtcht #scifi #fantasy (Thu Aug 30 02:06:09 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @robynmcintyre Great discussion tonight. Have a great week, everyone. And have fun at all those cons. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:06:34 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @Jaleta_Clegg I am breaking the bank to go. Unemployment ended. But it’s important for opportunities #chicon_7 #sffwrtcht #scifi #fantasy (Thu Aug 30 02:06:46 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @robynmcintyre Cool. I knew you’d be great. Sorry I wasn’t around much. Odd night for me #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:07:04 +0000 2012)talekyn: @robynmcintyre @kodermike @Jaleta_Clegg Apparently, there’s a small water leak down there. Have to get it checked tomorrow. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:07:09 +0000 2012)Jaleta_Clegg: @talekyn Not good news. I hope it’s something very minor and easily fixed. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:07:40 +0000 2012)kodermike: @talekyn och, sorry to hear that. Having had a recent leak, I feel your pain. (still have the hole) @robynmcintyre @Jaleta_Clegg #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:08:30 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @robynmcintyre @talekyn Yes, let’s not mix gremlins with water tonight. Or outlining will be least of our problems. #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:08:34 +0000 2012)robynmcintyre: @chippermuse Gremlins are definitely Pantsers #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:08:57 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @robynmcintyre Yeah, they are, aren’t they? And pretty destructive too. #pantsinggremlins #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:10:17 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @chippermuse Ha! I just fed them too. #pantsinggremlins #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:10:47 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @BryanThomasS You know… Pantsing gremlins… Angel strippers… You should stop me now before I do it again. LOL! #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:12:04 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @chippermuse Wait, you pantsed angel strippers and GREMLINS? What the hell is @shadowflame1974 doing with #sffwrtcht tonight? (Thu Aug 30 02:12:42 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: On that note, is #sffwrtcht over? I need to shut down the feed and go to bed. LOL (Thu Aug 30 02:14:07 +0000 2012)chippermuse: @BryanThomasS @shadowflame1974 LOL. No no no. Referring to a previous convo with angel strippers. I’m so ashamed… #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:15:02 +0000 2012)BryanThomasS: @chippermuse OH I KNEW what you were referring too #depravityandchaos #alwayswhenImgone #sffwrtcht (Thu Aug 30 02:15:36 +0000 2012)Participants
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